Curse

tenshi_strife · Mar 19, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

barrage is just fine as it is

/notsigned

Franco Power · Mar 19, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorwood

Glass Arrows is also a preparation so it would get removed anyway.

Yes and if you read the posts above besides looking at shiny icons you'd see people above me were talking about if Barrage didn't remove preparations-

Peace~

KIDGOOCH · Mar 19, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

I am a b/p as well as both my heroes, all maxed out. If I'm on a quest or mission I'll bring conflagration and give one hero Poison Arrow the other will get glass arrow or Broadhead arrow. How many more buffs do you need?

Desbreko · Mar 19, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

GftE right before a barrage will make all hits have +30ish% chance of being a critical (141% more dmg then max bow dmg). Also it will give this bonus to ALL barragers, pets and even minions.

Not quite. Each arrow fired with Barrage counts as a separate attack, so GftE only affects the first arrow to strike. You can test this with Anthem of Flame, though Empathy and Spiteful Spirit triggering for each arrow also confirms it.

Despite its drawbacks, Barrage is still one of the best elites for PvE rangers. I'd rather see other bow attacks get buffed so I actually have some incentive to use them in addition to or instead of Barrage. Broad Head Arrow, Oath Shot, and maybe Burning Arrow are the only other elite bow attacks I've found to be worthwhile in PvE, and only a couple of the non-elite ones (other than interrupts) have seen much use on my bar.

Not A Fifty Five · Mar 19, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

... or one could make it both useful in pve AND pvp without imbalancing either...

Hit target and nearby targets for a total of four max.

Desbreko · Mar 19, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

That would be a huge nerf to its usefulness in PvE, where 5+ enemies being in adjacent range of one another isn't that uncommon, since you're cutting its potential damage output by a third.

legion_rat · Mar 19, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

barrage is fine how it is. I may piss some off but as a sin its even better. constant energy gain and more likely to crit. I agree with most everyone so far that it doesnt need a buff.

I was in a party last night that walked through tombs like it was nothing. B/P parties in pve kill.

~the rat~

Master Sword Keeper · Mar 19, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Barrage + Splinter Weapon = Annoying

But in essence barrage is quite a weak bow attack.
Its the weakest bow attack I know..Why make something
bad even worse?

Not A Fifty Five · Mar 19, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desbreko

That would be a huge nerf to its usefulness in PvE, where 5+ enemies being in adjacent range of one another isn't that uncommon, since you're cutting its potential damage output by a third.

Kinda. It'll still be used widely for the fact that

A) for 4 targets if they each had 100 armor it'd do about 120 damage.

B)Add orders for an additional 68 and you get 188 DPS per Barrager.

C) Test it with a zealous bow and count the +1s, you rarely hit for the full 6, its almost always 4-5. So in most cases this would be a 0-20% nerf and in some cases it would be a buff.

D)Someone said barrage counts as scatter now (haven't barraged in a while) in which case this would be a buff.
And in PvP it might actually have a use.

Random Monk · Mar 19, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

That would make all rangers get in some sort of orgy when they find out they can use it with apply poison, choking gas, or ignite arrows and own just about anything with it

Just imagine aoe poison, massive interrupts to all foes adjacent to your target and all foes adjacent to those targets, and even ignite arrows will be doing +19 damage times however many enemies are in adjacent range.

This would be a problem with some preparations (especially as you mentioned Ignite, unless you have the penalty high enough to offset the Ignite damage), further balancing would be necessary. Maybe add in that preparations are only 1/3rd as effective in addition to the damage penalty.

Desbreko · Mar 19, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Barrage would still be used, sure, but that doesn't mean the change wouldn't also still be a large nerf for PvE rangers. It doesn't matter what else you stack onto it to try and make up for the decrease in damage output, the change you suggested would be sacrificing PvE usefulness for PvP usefulness. Hitting six targets is more damage than four targets, and stacking orders onto six attacks is more damage than on four attacks, no matter how you look at it. I don't have any objections to making it useful in PvP, I just don't want to see what has been a perfectly fine skill get screwed over in PvE because of that.

And I always use a vamp or zealous bow when barraging on my ranger, so I know full well how many enemies I'm hitting with any given barrage. With decent aggro management the change to nearby range would be near meaningless in PvE. Most of the time I'm either hitting the entire group of enemies or else the mob is composed of both ranged and melee enemies and they're a lot farther apart than nearby. Or if I'm in a guild/alliance group with a real tank instead of using heroes/henchies, it's rare that I'm not hitting both.

Whoever said Barrage makes baddies scatter was wrong. I just tested it and it still doesn't make them scatter at all.

lightblade · Mar 19, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

barrage is fine...Hundred Blades is not...

Wildi · Mar 19, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Ignite Arrows needs a buff

Skyy High · Mar 19, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

That would make all rangers get in some sort of orgy when they find out they can use it with apply poison, choking gas, or ignite arrows and own just about anything with it

Just imagine aoe poison, massive interrupts to all foes adjacent to your target and all foes adjacent to those targets, and even ignite arrows will be doing +19 damage times however many enemies are in adjacent range.

Poison Arrow + Epidemic doesn't seem overpowered to me.
Choking Gas already effects adjacent foes.
Ignite arrows adds +19 fire damage, Barrage +17 untyped damage.

Hardly seems overpowered.

judgedread33 · Mar 20, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

think about this if we alowed preperations with it barrage+ignite arrows+ splinter weapon= sipke of 350+ if it hit all 6 targets! a buff like dat just aint gunna happen m8

Raaaaa · Mar 20, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

I'm amazed it hasnt been nerfed. An AoE attack with + damage and incredibly low casting cost and fast recharge.
I use it on my R/p and all my heros with similar builds and using it with 'go for the eyes' and in a group of 4 or more bunched together you're getting constant recharge on 'go for the eyes' meaning barrage with increased crit chances. Couple that with Morghans various paragon buffs that can be numerous deep wounds, burning or cripling etc and throw in weapon spells thats plenty of damage.
It would be nice if preperations wern't removed but as many said that would be madness

druggedchimp · Mar 20, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Buff Barrage?

It's already ridiculously powerful when used with splinter weapon... and you want to make it stronger?

Well... I guess a slight damage boost wouldn't be too huge. But really, it's just fine as it is.

However, allowing barrage to work with preparations would just be insane, imagine ignite arrows + barrage + splinter weapon... Making any skill that powerful would be idiotic IMO.

/not signed

arcanemacabre · Mar 20, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Barrage sucks noodles in PvP, and is the #1 bow Ranger Elite in PvE. It doesn't need buffing, though it may need something to make it a bit better in PvP.

What? Don't look at me! I'm fresh outta ideas for now.

HawkofStorms · Mar 20, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

/notsigned

Its fine and powerful as is. Frankly, barrage is the most "skilless" elite to use in the game. Spam spam spam spam heal spam spam spam res pet spam spam stance spam spam. I'd actually prefer if it was nerfed so as to require more thinking by rangers in PvE.

BahamutKaiser · Mar 20, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

More power means more cost. Simply put, I say don't screw with a good thing.

Now if we had another Arrow Raining skill which had a longer cast time but rained down 2 or 3 volleys of arrows on a group over a short time and cost more, it would be nice to have the alternative.

When it comes to new changing a good skill, don't, if it is good don't change it, people who like it the way it is don't want you to mess it up, and suggesting broken ideas obviously woln't fly. Always turn to introducing a new skill with alternate features instead of trying to tamper with something people already like, that way, if it sucks, people still have what they want, if it's great, than people have 2 great skills to choose from instead of a change to the skill they already enjoyed.